1. Hello C., many thanks for accepting an interview for alejandro-8.blogspot.com. Could you provide us an overview of your career in the British Army?
I joined ‘boy soldiers’ (junior leaders) in August 1967 straight from school aged 15. Following my 2-years of training I passed out to join the 1st Royal Tank Regiment in December 1969 who was then based in Osnabruck, Western Germany, serving on Centurion of Mk.6/2 and Mk.13. In 1971 the British Government cancelled a Libyan order for Chieftain which we subsequently received and which were Mk.3S. In January 1972 I trained and qualified as a Driving and Maintenance Instructor on Chieftain followed immediately by spending 6-months on active service in Northern Ireland – we were the first non-infantry regiment to serve in the province. Whilst serving in N. Ireland I had two life-changing experiences in that my Mother unexpectedly passed away (I was aged 20 and my Mother was just 39) plus I shot someone. When I went to sign for a replacement bullet Major Weekes said ‘well done’ which I found sickening. We returned to Germany where we were told that we would be going back to N. Ireland and then converting to Scorpion. Although N. Ireland was a most enjoyable experience I wanted to remain as an Instructor on Chieftain so instead I decided to leave the Army in April 1973.
2. What do you think were the strong and weak points of the Chieftain tanks?
It’s a perfect world with hindsight but I will respond with my thoughts and experiences I had at the time I served. I was a very keen student of tank design and development at the time I served plus I also studied Russian armour as it was felt that there was a 50/50 chance that Russia would invade Western Europe. I wasn’t interested in the gunnery side of being a tank crewman instead I concentrated on the protection and mobility aspects. The only weak points of Chieftain for me at the time were the engine and the suspension. The strong points were the armour, the main armament, crew comfort and the semi-automatic gearbox.
3. When training, at was the typical distance to the objective and speed of the tank when you fired? And the longest distance at which you ever fired?
As a gunner I only fired Centurion at Lulworth, in training, and In German, I never fired Chieftain. We did battle runs with Chieftain and fired on the move at all speeds up to the maximum of 30mph. Longest distance ever fired on Cent and Chieftain was up to 1-mile.
4. How was the night firing conducted? Did you use flares for battlefield illumination? At what sort of ranges could you fire with the IR projector?
I enjoyed watching the night firing but never did it as a gunner. The ranges were the same in my experience with ‘starlight’ flares, Image Intensification, Infra-red and searchlight.
5. Early Chieftain variants used a ranging gun to measure distance to objective. Did you ever use it? If so, did you find it effective? Were you concerned about losing sight of tracers or confusing them with others during a battle?
I didn’t use the .50 RMG on Chieftain but I did with Centurion so I hope my response with Cent is helpful. Again the distances were up to a mile but did I find it effective? When you consider that at the time the only alternative was to use the ‘blade vane sight’ which was effectively ‘guessing’ so the RMG saved wasting 105mm rounds. I did experience first-round hits using the RMG hit information but I also experienced having to correct my shot so I would say that for the technology of the period it was fairly effective. I can appreciate the problem in following your own tracer in battle as there would be other factors such as smoke from the battlefield but I think the gunners, and the commanders, concentration would be so high in following your own tracer which would be in your own ‘line of sight’ that I can imagine it wouldn’t be a major problem confusing your tracer with anyone else’s.
6. Chieftain kept a rifled gun while other models introduced smoothbore guns. Do you think it was a good idea?
Yes. Remember, AT THAT TIME Chieftain was the most effective tank main armament in the world
7. Chieftain tanks use a human autoloader and 3 piece ammunition. What was the maximum rate of fire you achieved? How did it change as you used the different ammunition bins?
I apologize as I can’t answer this question not being a Chieftain gunner.
8. British Army made extensive use of HESH ammunition. Can you comment on its characteristics and performance?
Again, I apologize as I can’t answer this question not being a gunner. However, generally speaking HESH was used on ‘soft’ targets and APDS against other tanks. When I served we also had smoke and canister (anti-personnel) rounds.
9. What was the typical ammunition configuration load (% APDS/HESH/Smoke)?
No idea although as drivers we did all the ‘ammo bashing’ and HESH predominated.
10. In terms of maintenance, was there any component or system that was more delicate? Were there any issues with the supply chain?
Supply chain? I never experienced any difficulties in obtaining spare parts or ‘consumables’ (oil etc).All components and systems as supplied, apart from the engine, were fit for purpose. Of course, as drivers, we had to be aware of things like the searchlight overhanging the side of the hull and so on but overall I wouldn’t say we had to treat anything as ‘delicate’. But don’t forget that the main aim of the driver was to provide a stable platform for the main armament and so one had to fully aware of the limitations of the suspension in relation to the terrain being driven through.
11. What was the maximum distance you covered in a day during deployments or exercises? Did the tank cope well or needed extra maintenance?
This is an interesting question. We used to do regular ‘quick train’ call-out exercises usually in the early hours of the morning which were to practice for an invasion. On these occasions we had to drive from our barracks in Dodesheide through the city of Osnabruck to the Achmer training area and back which I reckon was a total of around 30-miles, all on roads driving flat out. I cannot recall any of our Chieftains ever having a breakdown. On a few occasions on exercise we did long route marches where we would drive on roads for many miles but I cannot recall how far. However, generally our driving activities were on exercise and the distances covered varied considerably from short distances to different mock battle area’s. We never ran out of fuel and never did more than one fuel refill in a day. I only ever had one breakdown, of sorts, that wasn’t down to the engine and that was when I threw a track in a very narrow gulley.
12. The Leyland L60 engine was an issue in early Chieftain models. Could you comment on this? Were the problems solved in the variants you used? Do you think there were alternatives to the L60?
As I mentioned in my introduction I didn’t serve on Chieftain for very long. In 1RTR we had the Mk.3S Chieftains which had the Model 7A version of the L60. Amongst other weaknesses this model of engine had the 2” wide fan belts which kept snapping. The two heavy aluminum fans had ‘sprag clutches’ which meant that when the engine revs died the fans could carry on freely rotating and gradually slowing down. The problem was, especially when driving cross-country, the engine revs were constantly changing and with each acceleration there was a sudden strain on the fan belts. The first modification we experienced was an increase in fan belt width and thickness plus they were ribbed across the width of the belt, now, instead of the belt snapping the fan drive hubs took the strain and started to crack and leak oil. The later mod of making the ribs longitudinal happened after my time but cured the problem. Another problem I experienced was with the engine ‘running away’, in other words the accelerator (fuel injection pump operating mechanism, became locked in one position, this wasn’t remedied in my time but was later. The biggest failure I experienced on a number of occasions’, like so many others, were the failure of one of the cylinder liner seals within the cylinder block. This wasn’t resolved in my short time.
Yes, there were alternatives to the L60. I had to present my tank, 01 FD 26, to the MoD delegation touring Germany to view the problem first hand. To this day I can still see the picture although I was only 20-yrs of age. The Regiment was on the Achmer training area so there was only myself and my tank on the whole of the tank park, something I had never experienced before. The delegation numbered about 20 personnel and consisted of military ‘top brass’, senior officers from the Regiment and ‘civvies’ from the MoD and Leyland. Chieftain was grossly underpowered with a basic rule being for 20bhp/ton which meant the engine should have at least been producing 1,200-1,300bhp instead of it’s miserly 750. I had written to Rolls-Royce to request some information about their range of ‘Eagle’ marine diesel engines. When I was asked what I thought was wrong with the engine I replied ‘the MoD gave the job to Leyland instead of R-R who produce the Eagle range of marine diesels and I feel certain the smallest of these could be adapted to fit Chieftain’. I don’t what the Israeli’s did with their two Chieftains, if anything, but their experience with Centurion would have given them plenty of experience and knowledge with what to do as an alternative to the L60.
13. One of the theoretical advantages of the Leyland L60 was that it was multifuel. Did you ever use this feature in training or manoeuvres? Is there any procedure that needs to be followed if different fuels are used (clean filters, purge components)?
Although I was a driving and maintenance instructor we didn’t cover changing over to any fuel other than diesel.
14. Chieftain used a Horstmann suspension, while other tanks of its era used torsion bars. What is your opinion on its advantages and disadvantages?
I didn’t like the Hostmann suspension as I felt that Chieftain was too heavy for it. Having said that it did perform well but it did limit your driving in certain conditions bearing in mind the main armament. However, one advantage of this type of suspension was its reliability and ease of maintenance/replacement. I never rode in a tank with torsion bars but saw various tanks with that type of suspension moving and was generally impressed. The only disadvantage of torsion bars that I can think of is the increased height of the vehicle necessary to fit it.
15. What was the maximum speed you managed to get in a Chieftain? And in reverse?
No idea about reverse but 30mph in top gear (6th) on the road.
16. Did you practise NBC situations? What was the approach? How did it affect the crew performance (especially loader)?
We did often practice for NBC warfare. There was no warning and we had to wear our ‘noddy’ suits for up to 24-hours. It was difficult driving Chieftain ‘closed down’ wearing a respirator but we appreciated that if it was for real then we could cope. It wasn’t too difficult to do your job just ‘different’. I never loaded the main gun but I reckon that would be hard and hot work even though we were fit.
17. Some Chieftain tanks were deployed in Berlin. Did you consider urban scenarios in your training?
No, open combat only plus I didn’t crew a tank in Berlin.
18. Did you have the opportunity to train with other countries (NATO for example)? What was your impression about their training and equipment? Any tank (or other weapon) you liked or disliked?
Yes, we trained with the Germans, Americans and Danes. The equipment of all three was good and modern. We were not impressed with our American friends as they didn’t operate in a skilful and professional manner, it was as if it was all a game to the ones we trained with. However, had Ivan crossed the border I am certain that their performance would have given Ivan something to think about.
19. What is your opinion on turbines and autoloaders? These devices were introduced in the 1970s by other tanks (T-80 and Abrams).
I don’t have enough technical knowledge or experience of gas turbines or auto-loaders. I can see the benefit of an auto-loader in that you can have a more rapid rate of fire but the downside being, of course, a limited amount of ready rounds of the required ammunition type. It may also, I presume, be able to load and unload an auto-loader stock by bulk? I am impressed with the M1 Abrams gas turbine other than with its fuel economy.
20. Do you think Chieftain could have been developed more or it was better to move into the Challenger series?
I was extremely impressed when I saw Khalid being demonstrated. Suddenly Chieftain, in the form of Khalid, had excellent firepower and performance but the protection was sadly lacking. The additional turret armour fitted to Chieftain was always a stop-gap solution and not ideal and so, in my opinion, I believe that Chieftain had virtually reached the limits of its development potential and Chally 2 (not 1, which was 95% Chieftain) was definitely the way forward.
The interviews section relies on veterans and people related to the defense industry who gave up some time for the blog. If you are a veteran (active or retired), serve in the military, or you have worked in the defence industry, and would like to get interviewed leave me a message.
I joined ‘boy soldiers’ (junior leaders) in August 1967 straight from school aged 15. Following my 2-years of training I passed out to join the 1st Royal Tank Regiment in December 1969 who was then based in Osnabruck, Western Germany, serving on Centurion of Mk.6/2 and Mk.13. In 1971 the British Government cancelled a Libyan order for Chieftain which we subsequently received and which were Mk.3S. In January 1972 I trained and qualified as a Driving and Maintenance Instructor on Chieftain followed immediately by spending 6-months on active service in Northern Ireland – we were the first non-infantry regiment to serve in the province. Whilst serving in N. Ireland I had two life-changing experiences in that my Mother unexpectedly passed away (I was aged 20 and my Mother was just 39) plus I shot someone. When I went to sign for a replacement bullet Major Weekes said ‘well done’ which I found sickening. We returned to Germany where we were told that we would be going back to N. Ireland and then converting to Scorpion. Although N. Ireland was a most enjoyable experience I wanted to remain as an Instructor on Chieftain so instead I decided to leave the Army in April 1973.
2. What do you think were the strong and weak points of the Chieftain tanks?
It’s a perfect world with hindsight but I will respond with my thoughts and experiences I had at the time I served. I was a very keen student of tank design and development at the time I served plus I also studied Russian armour as it was felt that there was a 50/50 chance that Russia would invade Western Europe. I wasn’t interested in the gunnery side of being a tank crewman instead I concentrated on the protection and mobility aspects. The only weak points of Chieftain for me at the time were the engine and the suspension. The strong points were the armour, the main armament, crew comfort and the semi-automatic gearbox.
3. When training, at was the typical distance to the objective and speed of the tank when you fired? And the longest distance at which you ever fired?
As a gunner I only fired Centurion at Lulworth, in training, and In German, I never fired Chieftain. We did battle runs with Chieftain and fired on the move at all speeds up to the maximum of 30mph. Longest distance ever fired on Cent and Chieftain was up to 1-mile.
4. How was the night firing conducted? Did you use flares for battlefield illumination? At what sort of ranges could you fire with the IR projector?
I enjoyed watching the night firing but never did it as a gunner. The ranges were the same in my experience with ‘starlight’ flares, Image Intensification, Infra-red and searchlight.
5. Early Chieftain variants used a ranging gun to measure distance to objective. Did you ever use it? If so, did you find it effective? Were you concerned about losing sight of tracers or confusing them with others during a battle?
I didn’t use the .50 RMG on Chieftain but I did with Centurion so I hope my response with Cent is helpful. Again the distances were up to a mile but did I find it effective? When you consider that at the time the only alternative was to use the ‘blade vane sight’ which was effectively ‘guessing’ so the RMG saved wasting 105mm rounds. I did experience first-round hits using the RMG hit information but I also experienced having to correct my shot so I would say that for the technology of the period it was fairly effective. I can appreciate the problem in following your own tracer in battle as there would be other factors such as smoke from the battlefield but I think the gunners, and the commanders, concentration would be so high in following your own tracer which would be in your own ‘line of sight’ that I can imagine it wouldn’t be a major problem confusing your tracer with anyone else’s.
6. Chieftain kept a rifled gun while other models introduced smoothbore guns. Do you think it was a good idea?
Yes. Remember, AT THAT TIME Chieftain was the most effective tank main armament in the world
7. Chieftain tanks use a human autoloader and 3 piece ammunition. What was the maximum rate of fire you achieved? How did it change as you used the different ammunition bins?
I apologize as I can’t answer this question not being a Chieftain gunner.
8. British Army made extensive use of HESH ammunition. Can you comment on its characteristics and performance?
Again, I apologize as I can’t answer this question not being a gunner. However, generally speaking HESH was used on ‘soft’ targets and APDS against other tanks. When I served we also had smoke and canister (anti-personnel) rounds.
9. What was the typical ammunition configuration load (% APDS/HESH/Smoke)?
No idea although as drivers we did all the ‘ammo bashing’ and HESH predominated.
10. In terms of maintenance, was there any component or system that was more delicate? Were there any issues with the supply chain?
Supply chain? I never experienced any difficulties in obtaining spare parts or ‘consumables’ (oil etc).All components and systems as supplied, apart from the engine, were fit for purpose. Of course, as drivers, we had to be aware of things like the searchlight overhanging the side of the hull and so on but overall I wouldn’t say we had to treat anything as ‘delicate’. But don’t forget that the main aim of the driver was to provide a stable platform for the main armament and so one had to fully aware of the limitations of the suspension in relation to the terrain being driven through.
11. What was the maximum distance you covered in a day during deployments or exercises? Did the tank cope well or needed extra maintenance?
This is an interesting question. We used to do regular ‘quick train’ call-out exercises usually in the early hours of the morning which were to practice for an invasion. On these occasions we had to drive from our barracks in Dodesheide through the city of Osnabruck to the Achmer training area and back which I reckon was a total of around 30-miles, all on roads driving flat out. I cannot recall any of our Chieftains ever having a breakdown. On a few occasions on exercise we did long route marches where we would drive on roads for many miles but I cannot recall how far. However, generally our driving activities were on exercise and the distances covered varied considerably from short distances to different mock battle area’s. We never ran out of fuel and never did more than one fuel refill in a day. I only ever had one breakdown, of sorts, that wasn’t down to the engine and that was when I threw a track in a very narrow gulley.
12. The Leyland L60 engine was an issue in early Chieftain models. Could you comment on this? Were the problems solved in the variants you used? Do you think there were alternatives to the L60?
As I mentioned in my introduction I didn’t serve on Chieftain for very long. In 1RTR we had the Mk.3S Chieftains which had the Model 7A version of the L60. Amongst other weaknesses this model of engine had the 2” wide fan belts which kept snapping. The two heavy aluminum fans had ‘sprag clutches’ which meant that when the engine revs died the fans could carry on freely rotating and gradually slowing down. The problem was, especially when driving cross-country, the engine revs were constantly changing and with each acceleration there was a sudden strain on the fan belts. The first modification we experienced was an increase in fan belt width and thickness plus they were ribbed across the width of the belt, now, instead of the belt snapping the fan drive hubs took the strain and started to crack and leak oil. The later mod of making the ribs longitudinal happened after my time but cured the problem. Another problem I experienced was with the engine ‘running away’, in other words the accelerator (fuel injection pump operating mechanism, became locked in one position, this wasn’t remedied in my time but was later. The biggest failure I experienced on a number of occasions’, like so many others, were the failure of one of the cylinder liner seals within the cylinder block. This wasn’t resolved in my short time.
Yes, there were alternatives to the L60. I had to present my tank, 01 FD 26, to the MoD delegation touring Germany to view the problem first hand. To this day I can still see the picture although I was only 20-yrs of age. The Regiment was on the Achmer training area so there was only myself and my tank on the whole of the tank park, something I had never experienced before. The delegation numbered about 20 personnel and consisted of military ‘top brass’, senior officers from the Regiment and ‘civvies’ from the MoD and Leyland. Chieftain was grossly underpowered with a basic rule being for 20bhp/ton which meant the engine should have at least been producing 1,200-1,300bhp instead of it’s miserly 750. I had written to Rolls-Royce to request some information about their range of ‘Eagle’ marine diesel engines. When I was asked what I thought was wrong with the engine I replied ‘the MoD gave the job to Leyland instead of R-R who produce the Eagle range of marine diesels and I feel certain the smallest of these could be adapted to fit Chieftain’. I don’t what the Israeli’s did with their two Chieftains, if anything, but their experience with Centurion would have given them plenty of experience and knowledge with what to do as an alternative to the L60.
13. One of the theoretical advantages of the Leyland L60 was that it was multifuel. Did you ever use this feature in training or manoeuvres? Is there any procedure that needs to be followed if different fuels are used (clean filters, purge components)?
Although I was a driving and maintenance instructor we didn’t cover changing over to any fuel other than diesel.
14. Chieftain used a Horstmann suspension, while other tanks of its era used torsion bars. What is your opinion on its advantages and disadvantages?
I didn’t like the Hostmann suspension as I felt that Chieftain was too heavy for it. Having said that it did perform well but it did limit your driving in certain conditions bearing in mind the main armament. However, one advantage of this type of suspension was its reliability and ease of maintenance/replacement. I never rode in a tank with torsion bars but saw various tanks with that type of suspension moving and was generally impressed. The only disadvantage of torsion bars that I can think of is the increased height of the vehicle necessary to fit it.
15. What was the maximum speed you managed to get in a Chieftain? And in reverse?
No idea about reverse but 30mph in top gear (6th) on the road.
16. Did you practise NBC situations? What was the approach? How did it affect the crew performance (especially loader)?
We did often practice for NBC warfare. There was no warning and we had to wear our ‘noddy’ suits for up to 24-hours. It was difficult driving Chieftain ‘closed down’ wearing a respirator but we appreciated that if it was for real then we could cope. It wasn’t too difficult to do your job just ‘different’. I never loaded the main gun but I reckon that would be hard and hot work even though we were fit.
17. Some Chieftain tanks were deployed in Berlin. Did you consider urban scenarios in your training?
No, open combat only plus I didn’t crew a tank in Berlin.
18. Did you have the opportunity to train with other countries (NATO for example)? What was your impression about their training and equipment? Any tank (or other weapon) you liked or disliked?
Yes, we trained with the Germans, Americans and Danes. The equipment of all three was good and modern. We were not impressed with our American friends as they didn’t operate in a skilful and professional manner, it was as if it was all a game to the ones we trained with. However, had Ivan crossed the border I am certain that their performance would have given Ivan something to think about.
19. What is your opinion on turbines and autoloaders? These devices were introduced in the 1970s by other tanks (T-80 and Abrams).
I don’t have enough technical knowledge or experience of gas turbines or auto-loaders. I can see the benefit of an auto-loader in that you can have a more rapid rate of fire but the downside being, of course, a limited amount of ready rounds of the required ammunition type. It may also, I presume, be able to load and unload an auto-loader stock by bulk? I am impressed with the M1 Abrams gas turbine other than with its fuel economy.
20. Do you think Chieftain could have been developed more or it was better to move into the Challenger series?
I was extremely impressed when I saw Khalid being demonstrated. Suddenly Chieftain, in the form of Khalid, had excellent firepower and performance but the protection was sadly lacking. The additional turret armour fitted to Chieftain was always a stop-gap solution and not ideal and so, in my opinion, I believe that Chieftain had virtually reached the limits of its development potential and Chally 2 (not 1, which was 95% Chieftain) was definitely the way forward.
The interviews section relies on veterans and people related to the defense industry who gave up some time for the blog. If you are a veteran (active or retired), serve in the military, or you have worked in the defence industry, and would like to get interviewed leave me a message.
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