Thursday, 2 May 2024

Interview with a former F-105 pilot and Vietnam veteran

A former F-105 pilot kindly accepted an interview. D. served in Vietnam carrying out very dangerous missions in Hanoi. He also flew many years in a F-104 Starfighter, and got some eaarly experience in a F-102. I would like to thank him for his time.

1) Hello D., many thanks for accepting an interview with alejandro-8en.blogspot.com. Could you provide an introduction to your service in the USAF?


The path started right after WW2.  I was lying on a hill side with my cousin watching someone in a WACO bi-plane sky writing right above us.  I thought I would like to do that.  I began studying airplanes.  My father would take us to the airport to watch the big airplanes take off and land (C-47s).  During the Korean War, I listened to radio broadcasts about fights over MiG Alley.  When I entered engineering school, I enrolled in the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corp.  I was commissioned a 2LT upon graduation and had a slot to enter the USAF pilot training program.  I already possessed a private pilots license so I already knew how to fly.

2) What was your first impression of the F-105?  What do you think were the weak and strong points?

Wow this is a big jet. It was 12 feet up to the cockpit.  You could not touch the wings unless you were on a ladder. I had already flown the F-102 and the F-101B, both interceptors designed to stop the Russians from coming into the US with nuclear armed bombers.  The F-102 concept started in the late 40s. The initial F-101 was built as a single seat nuclear weapons delivery aircraft.  The F-101 was modified with a second cockpit for the weapon systems officer who basically ran the intercepts.   The F-105 was built as a nuclear weapons delivery aircraft.  It had a bombay to hold a B-57 or B-43 nuclear weapon.  I don’t think it was ever certified to carry the B-61 that came later. I never sat on nuclear alert in the Thud. I only flew it with a 390 gallon fuel tank in the bombay.

The F-105 was never designed to be a “day” fighter and it had a very high wing loading so it took a lot of sky to turn it. That high wing loading made it a very stable airplane.  It was equipped with a M-61 Vulcan 20 mm cannon that fired 100 rounds per second. That gun was very effective.

When the war in Vietnam included going to Hanoi, the F-105 was the best airplane to do that job.  A lot of F-105s were shot down because of a soviet style highly integrated air defense system of AAA , SAMs, and aircraft (Mig-17s, MiG-21s while I was there).   We lost 80% to AAA, 15% to SAMS, and 10% to MiGs. The war up North was winding down when the D Model Thuds were pulled out of Combat.

 It could fly very fast for a long way either high or very low. We could refuel using either the probe and drogue system or the boom and receptical system.  I used both in combat going to and coming back from North Vietnam.
The airplane could sustain a lot of damage and still fly.  It had a dry wing and the fuel tanks were above the engine.  

The F-105 cockpit was very well designed.  The instrument layout was well thought out.  The D Model and later versions all had vertical tapes for airspeed and altitude. These were very easy to interpret.   

3) How did it compare to other century fighters you flew (F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104)?

I never did fly the F-100.  All of these jets were being designed and built as aerodynamic laws were being discovered and were the second generations of jet aircraft.  For instance, the F-102, equipped with a J-57 engine, could not go supersonic until the area rule (coke bottle) concept was discovered and used on its fuselage. That concept was also used on the F-106 that used the J-75 and reach Mach 2. I learned a lot flying the F-102. Its delta wing led to a low wing loading but you could get behind the power curve and find yourself sinking like a rock but still able to pull the nose up, use the ailerons and crash on final.  The F-102 needed a much larger engine.  It was fun to fly.   

The F-101 had two J57 engines and plenty of power but its high tail led to pitch ups. That led to systems added to warn the pilot it was about to depart.  The F-101B could climb like a banshee making it spectacular watch it climb at night.  I learned to watch for the nose to begin to wonder on its own before the vanes warned me about a pitch up.  I leaned to fly the airplane, and not horse it around.

The F-105 was a delight to fly.  Once you learned to keep the airspeed up and to feel the burble before a stall the airplane could do is job.  The big difference for me was learning the new weapons and how to fly both air to air combat as well as air to ground attack.  These were new to me and it took time in the cockpit practicing.  We initially started our attack missions flying low level, finding the initial point, popping up and rolling in on the target at a 45 degree dive and releasing at 550 knots.  About half way through our training, the war in Vietnam was changing.  The airplanes were now flying pod formations with jamming pods loaded on an outboard pylon.  Sixteen attack aircraft were in this B-17 like formation heading to Berlin.  That’s the formations I was involved in heading to Hanoi.  The airplane was well suited for this role.

The F-104G while much smaller than the F-105 flew very much like a Thud.  Again, once you learned to keep the speed up and paid attention to the T tail, it flew very well.  I spent a lot of time teaching in this jet.  Initially I was teaching new German Air Force pilots coming out of pilot training how to fly the airplane, next was teaching them how fight with it.   

4) Having flown fighters and interceptors up to that point, was it difficult to adjust to a fighter-bomber (workload)? Did you ever miss a WSO (Weapons System Officer)?


Learning how to shift from being an interceptor pilot to a ground attack pilot was a huge shift.  Much of it was head work, thinking through the maneuvers, the timing of what to do next.  I never missed not having a WSO.  Once I had roughly 6 or 7 trips to Hanoi, I felt I had the hang of it, especially after learning how to defeat a SAM fired at me.  I was never comfortable about heading to Hanoi but I knew what I was doing and what to expect.  When I finished my 100 missions in North Vietnam, I knew I knew what I was doing.

5) What was the maximum speed you managed to reach in the F-105? And altitude? Was there a limiting factor (aircraft temperature, engine)?

I have had the F-105 at 815 Knots at about 4000 feet over Hanoi.   I aimed at diving steep, driving for 60 degrees and dropping at 500 knots, pilling out of thr dive at 600 knots because the MiG-21 was limited to 595 at those altitudes.  There was no way he could catch up with me.  A clean F-105 would reach Mach 2 at 35,000 feet on a test hop.  The limiting speed was canopy heat at low altitude as I remember.

6) What was the maximum payload you flew with?


The heaviest payload I carried was carrying two 3000 pound bombs, one each wing, a QRC jamming pod, and a 650 gallon center line fuel tank. These bombs were heading to a bridge, or a rail yard near Hanoi.  

7) What was the typical weapon configuration? Did you use any guided air-to-surface missiles?

My typical combat load was 6 759 pound bombs on a center line bomb rack, two 450 gallon fuel tans on the in board pylons, a QRC pod, and some times I was armed with a side winder missile on the out board pylon.  

When I was assigned to a Wild Weasel flight as a D-model pilot (the 388th TFW at Korat did this), I was armed with an AGM-45 anti SAM missile under one in board pylon.  I some times had 6 750 pound bombs and some times 6 ClusterBombs, or 6 500 pond bombs.  I did this 6 times near Hanoi.  I was a weasel hired gun.  I would pull up with the F-105F weasel, fire the AGM -45 as diected by the Weasel Bear, and roll in on a target as directed by the weasel pilot.

In southern North Vietnam, a few pilots dropped and guided Bullpup missiles on a target.  They were stiiting ducks while steering the missile. I saw one of my squadron pilots fly one into a mountain tunnel and the mountain blew up.  Could not do that if we were being shot at.

8) The F-102 had an IRST sensor? Did you miss it in the F-105?

The F-101 also had an IRST sensor.  They were designed to help guide IR Missiles that were loaded on these interceptor aircraft.   I never missed it on the F-105 or the F-104.  We could hear this missile growl in the head sets and knew the missile sees the target.

9) Could you describe how a nuclear attack mission would have been carried out? How fast could you take off, was there a final confirmation before carrying out launching of bombs? Would you have kept radio silence during the entire sortie?

I went through comb commanders school at Nellis but we were told we would get a local checkout as needed. I was in an air to ground war in North Vietnam.  In February 1968, the North Koreans captured the Pueblo.  The F-105 units in Japan and in Okinamwa were sent to Korea at Osan.  Some sat nuclear alert, have new targets assigned to them.  Others were loaded with weapons loads that I was carrying to North Vietnam.  After my combat tour, I was assigned to the F-105 at Kadena, Okinawa.  I got a local area checkout, then went to the States to get my family.  When I got back, I learned I was assigned to thw Wing and would fly the T-33.  So I never sat nuclear alert at Kadena.

10) Did you get any specific training before being deployed in Vietnam?

We all attended Global Survival School.  I did my traing in the State of Washington before being sent to Las Vegas to get checked out in the aircraft.  I went through the long course at Nellis since this was my first exposure to flying air to air and air to ground combat.  That training gave me the basics in flying in combat.  I was being sent to the 469th Tactical Fighter Squadron at Korat.

On my way to Korat I was sent to the Phillipines to attend jungle survival school.  This training was to help us if we ejected over the jungle.  We were taught how to find water, some edible plants, making shelter, and basics on evading capture.

11) How did the local conditions affect the aircraft performance?

Las Vegas is very hot in the summer but had long runways.  Korat was also hot but had an 8,000 foot runway.  Fortunately the F-105 had a water injection system for that beautiful J-75 which added 2000 pounds of thrust.  We needed it!  I kept my left hand finger pointed right at the mater ejection button on every takeoff in case I needed to clean the aircraft to fly.  

12) How many hours did you typically flew per year? And when deployed in Vietnam?


We typically flew about 150 hours per year.  I combat in the F-105D,  I flew over 300 hours a tad more than 6 months ( 4 Nov-14 May)

13) What tactics did you use if you were intercepted by enemy fighters (Try to escape/engage enemy)?

By the time I was flying over North Vietnam, the Vietnamese changed their tactics.  The MiG-17s were generally below 15,000 feet.  I saw them but did not attempt to chase them.  My job was to bomb targets, not chase MiGs.

The MiG-21 was the one I had my engagements with.  It is a small jet with very little smoke coming out of the tail pipe.  The would most often come in well above out flights at 14,000 to 18,000 feet, at a 90 degree angle.  They would jettison their fuel tans, select after burner and arrive behind their target flight suoersonic and slightly low. If their target aircraft “broke” at the right time, he may have been able to negate the attack.  The MiG would lower its nose stay in AB and disappear in the distance.  I was attacked a few times but I don’t think ever shot at.

14) The F-105 did not last very long in service and was phased out rather quicky. Do you think it was a good decision? Could it have served a few more years with an upgrade?

The F-105 was in combat from November 1964 (I think) through the end of 1968.  It was involved in all the action starting with Rolling Thunder to the end of Rolling Thunder when President Johnson halted flights up North. The F-105Fs later all modified the Gs, were fully modified and were all kept in combat. The inventory of remaining F-105Ds precluded further mods. The Wild Weasels were heavily involved with Linebacker I and Linebacker II.  The F-105Ds were all given to the Air Nation Guard and Reserves.  The F-105Bs never saw combat.

15) Was there any Soviet system that impressed you (MiG-25, SA-2, Tu-95)?

The MiG-21 was a very capable aircraft.  

16) Did you have an opportunity to interact with NATO or Allied countries? What was your impression of the equipment and training?

I was heavily involved with NATO.  At Luke AFB in Phoenix AZ, I was an instructor pilot in the F-104G teaching young German Air Forces Lieutenants to fly the F-104G.  Then we taught them to flight with it.  After a year or so I attended the GAF/USAF Fighter Weapons School.  Not long after, I was chosen to lead the school. We had students from Germany, Canada, the Netherlands and Belgium while I was there.  We were teaching Weapons instructors more about the weapons, introduced them to new tactics we had developed in the school, and subjects most of them had not been exposed to.  I was then selected to attend the Canadian Command and Staff College for a year. My next assignment was to HQ USAFE in Ramstine Germany as an F-104 pilot.  I went to 421 Squadron In Baden Sollingen to become re current in the F-104.  That began three years of flying the F-104 in three different German    fighter Wings, two Italian Wings, a Dutch wing and one in Belgium. I became current in the F-104S at Rimini, Italy.  I was a nuclear weapons evaluator not only for HQ USAFE but also for HQ SHAPE in Mons.  That had me flying in 15 different squadrons.  I found their training was excellent.  Very similar to US Squadrons.  

17) What was your most challenging sortie? And the most memorable one (if not the same!)?


I would pick my second trip to the Doumer Bridge I Hanoi.  I was they very last person to roll in.  Every gun in the valley was there to shoot at me.  I wound up briefing President Johnson about my roll in this mission.

18) Is there any anecdote you would like to share before finishing the interview (usually something funny)?

Shoot low, they are all riding shetlands.

Other interviews:


I am always looking for more veterans, active members or people related with the defence industry to accept interviews. If you enjoyed reading the material and would be happy to accept an anonimous interview you can get in contact with me. My e-mail can be found in this link at the heading. Otherwise leave a message in the comment sections.

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